Gravitas WINS Radio

[00:00:00] **Joseph:** Hello and welcome to Gravitas Wind's Conversations. I'm your host, Joseph Ju. Whether you are an executive or an entrepreneur, you face two challenges all the time. How to solve problems that you're facing and how to capture new opportunities. You need all the leverage that you can gain to be the competition.

[00:00:25] Visual thinking and communication is one such leverage. My guest today, Satya, has made it as a mission to help executives and entrepreneurs in using visuals as one of the leverage. In today's conversation, we discuss tools, success stories, and ways you can get started. Hope the conversation is helpful to you.

[00:00:49] Hello, Satya. Welcome to the Conversation.

[00:00:52] **Sathya:** Hi Joseph. Glad to see you.

[00:00:54] **Joseph:** Satya, let's start with this. What was your backstory into visual thinking and communication?

[00:01:00] **Sathya:** Many would be able to relate to this, as with all it happened because of Covid. Previously I was having my own consulting agency.

[00:01:06] I was working with a business partner. Apparently, our business flopped because of covid and variety of reason. I didn't have any other thing to do. So only other opportunity I had was like, let me join Twitter and figure things out. And I discovered this amazing really vibrant creative community on Twitter. Maybe it's not much as today. It was earlier. And one of the person that I came across was Jack Cher. And he had a wonderful handle and a brand called Visualize value. Then I became so enad by what he's doing. So he's, he takes these wonderful concepts, Phil like Uhto philosophy or especially he became very famous after taking novel Doans Mm concepts and visualized it.

[00:01:49] And that kind of visualization was so appealing to me that I also wanted to create such And that's how it became like a, like a, it became, it started as a simple passion. And then subsequently I started making it, people started liking it. There came to a point where people started asking me like, can you do it for me?

[00:02:08] And they paid me for it. Then then realized that, hey, there is something in here. Then, then we are here now. So, yeah.

[00:02:16] **Joseph:** I'm glad that you picked something that you liked. And you pursued it as a passion. And then, then it became a revenue stream. So I'm, I'm glad to hear that. Satya.

[00:02:27] **Sathya:** I

[00:02:27] sort of have a theory, so, so I call that as good f and great fan. Like you can be good fan of lot of things, right? You can be, you can like music, you know, like songs, et cetera, et cetera. Like, like the analogy that I gave is that like, like go to a hotel. You eat a Manchi bni and you and you like it, you love it, you appreciate the chef, Yu five star reviews.

[00:02:47] That's being a good fan. A great fan is like my mom. So what she'll do is that she'll ask like, what do you put in the biani? What is a masala? What is ingredient? And she would want to recreate that ani at home. Mm. So you have to distinguish between like whether you're a good fan of the particular art form or a craft.

[00:03:04] Not a great fan and great fan, meaning that you can't help yourself not recreating it. And that is how you can find your niche or a little above passion, and you want to make a career out of it. So I became great fan of this micro visual, this atomic visual that people are talking about, and I wanted to recreate it, and I'm a good fan of many things.

[00:03:26] I'm a good fan of Sketchnoting. I'm a good fan of writing. But I'm a great fan of this visual form of communication.

[00:03:32] **Joseph:** Thanks. Thanks, Satya. We are just five minutes into the conversation and I'm already getting a lot of value out of this.

[00:03:38] The good fan and the great friend for art form, basically. Exactly, exactly. I, I heard this being said. About creator. Mm-hmm. Like is I think there's Tim Ferres talked about this thousand fans. I think he himself got it from somebody else, but then he always talks about thousand good fans for creator to be in the creator economy.

[00:03:58] But what you are saying is you are to be a creator fan of. The Correct, correct. Or or of some particular venture. And then that is how you will try to understand everything about that. Exactly. And study the. Top guys in that particular field and recreate it and then you make it your own.

[00:04:19] Exactly. Exactly.

[00:04:20] Maybe cliche to quote Steve Jobs here, but, but like Steve Jobs says you need that enough passion because point of time it's going to become drudgery, it's gonna be a huge challenge, whatever art form, the only thing that can help you to take the next step. And the next step is going to be the passion that you have for the craft.

[00:04:37] And if the passion is not there, you just have to. Let go. So if you're unable to face the challenge, then, then it's, it's a, it's a, it's a craft that you may not want to pursue. And if you have that like, like gravitas, like you call it, To actually take the next step. Then there is something in it you're able to put up with a struggle.

[00:04:54] You're able to put up with a challenge then. The mental model I'm just using is that good fan or a great fan? So I'm a good fan of a biani. I don't want to put Biani. But my mom is a great friend of a mariani. Mm. So so you have to decide which type of fan you are.

[00:05:10] Wonderful.

[00:05:10] And you cannot be a great fan of way too many things. You can be a good fan of

[00:05:14] **Sathya:** many things. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely,

[00:05:18] **Joseph:** definitely. Okay. Satya, you talked about, okay, you shared these things on the Twitter and then some people said, can you do this for me? And then they paid.

[00:05:27] Can you, can we talk a little bit about how did you make this as a business? How you've been growing this as a business. How are you finding your clients? Is it, is it only via Twitter?

[00:05:37] **Sathya:** So

[00:05:37] majorly it came via Twitter and it's, it is coming via Twitter also. And fortunately I had the, like, gift of having a lot of inbound curious.

[00:05:47] So, so Twitter or LinkedIn or any social media, I think people underestimate the concept like, like the, the luxury that we have on Twitter. And so I, I used to be, I'm. I wasn't in sales earlier, but I used to accompany salespeople as a manager, as a, as a training coordinator, et cetera, et cetera.

[00:06:05] And you know, the physical sales cycle is such a luxury. Mm. They'll ask you to wait and all those things. People don't understand the luxury that you have because of, because of because of internet. You're actually. Placed on a pedestal. Mm-hmm. Just by writing some random words. You don't have to talk people, you don't have to have charisma.

[00:06:21] You're just putting your work out there and you, you being literally have the opportunity of being looked by millions of people. I mean if, if, if, if, if time favors, if algorithm favors, et cetera, et cetera. And that visibility increases you. Increases your credibility, increases authority, and you're putting your skill in front of the front of a huge audience.

[00:06:40] Mm-hmm. And if they're interested, they're going to call back or the other way around. You can always go and ask people, Hey, I do such kind of things. Do you want to do such kind of things? Maybe you can do some sample work. Hey, I did something like this. So that's how I started earlier, for example.

[00:06:53] Just like, again, I'm going to take Jack Butcher's concept. He was nobody. He was literally nobody on Twitter. What he took is that he took Naval doans concept. He did it and he attacked naan on Twitter. So Naval Doan liked it and retweeted it. That that network effect basically blew his account up, blew his.

[00:07:13] Now he's one of those top level creators in the entire economy. So I also started mimicking it. I tagged a few people. I mean, I also did something for Rogan. He didn't retweet it, but there were other people. Who are kind enough to like, it retwe it. They liked my style of doing it. And you basically increase that credibility and visibility on the platform.

[00:07:35] Eventually there, there would be some people who might be interested, Hey, can you do it for me? Or you go and reach out to them, I can do it for you. How much would you pay? Like they do like PayPal, like this, so you don't have to go to Upwork or, or whatever. Freelancing platform. I've never been there.

[00:07:50] I've never done this. All those things. So it has been such a this. Then what happened is that you do like a. Minimal like a tier one service. So I'll do five visuals. Then after that, I'll not only do visuals, I'll also do schedule these visuals on your social media platform. I can be your ghost scheduler.

[00:08:07] I can help you plan your social media calendar. So you basically upsell, set another higher levels of services, and that's all. It became, so instead of a hundred dollars service, it becomes a thousand dollars consulting or even even further then it became a retainer fee. At least that is what I am trying to do.

[00:08:26] I mean, it worked last year. It sort of in working this year also, I'm now currently focusing on instead of. Doing a hundred dollars service at all. I'll no more do a hundred dollars service. I'll say I can do only $10 a thousand dollars service. If you want, you can, you can join. So I'm offering it as a package.

[00:08:43] So each one for himself you just have to figure that out for yourself. Everybody is learning. Then ultimately you get that. Get that moving at the moment of say, yeah,

[00:08:53] **Joseph:** I, I love it. Sat. Fine. You are. You are here. You are talking about a thousand dollar offering as a service that you are talking about, but let's go back to the initial days.

[00:09:05] Mm-hmm. What were some of the challenges that you faced when you said, okay, I'm gonna do this. As a business. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So first you started off as mimicking Jack Butcher. You are putting out your visuals. People liked it. Then you said, okay, I'm gonna make this as a business. Mm-hmm. What were some of the challenges that you faced and how did you overcome them?

[00:09:27] **Sathya:** No, but very practically, like you will not have cashflow like initiative. That's the unfortunate apathy that every entrepreneur or solopreneur had to with mean no. 2021. I told myself that like, okay, I'm, this business is not working. The previous consulting business was not working, and might as well explore my creative avenue at least now.

[00:09:49] So I took, like, everybody was on break, I believe in 2021. So, so I gave myself the freedom to explore it so that. That there was a buffer to me. I'm, I'm not kidding. Like I had a buffer. I had some amount of savings, so I wasn't like running here and there. I wasn't desperate, et cetera, et cetera. So there was minimum buffer.

[00:10:08] And I also had a very minimalistic, like my family itself had a minimal life, so we didn't have that much of a requirement. I didn't have a huge e emmi to pay. So all those things. So I think you need to carefully. Understand your own cashflow requirement. Then subsequently build that buffer and see whether you have that luxury to and you're using the word luxury in a very pertaining way.

[00:10:29] So that's, that's one thing. The second obvious thing is that actually mastering the craft itself, okay? There are thousands of people who are trying to. Become somebody on, on Twitter, on social media trying to make an a business out of it. Not everybody can are able to make it. They go back and apply for a job, join back and all.

[00:10:51] It's nothing wrong in it. But again, you just have to put up with that both, both externally. You should have that buffer. And internally you should also have that have that Enough, enough amount of grit to actually to put up with it. So these two things, I believe you should. Okay.

[00:11:07] **Joseph:** Satya, you talked about mastering the craft.

[00:11:10] Mm-hmm. Can we go a little deeper into it? How do you go about mastering the craft of, say, for example, in your case, visuals.

[00:11:18] **Sathya:** I didn't have a theory, but I later realized that it was validated by theory. So basically collect then copy, then subsequently create, so basically collect, like, like your own mini Library of craft that you are great fan of. So that's the thing. I believe we, we had then, like you also talked about, mimic and then mastery.

[00:11:38] I think that's the same theory. You don't have to do it for everything. You do it for the thing that you are great fan of. Hmm. And subsequently you want to master it. So first you need to collect those great pieces that you like. Then second, after that, you copy them, rework them. I was actually trying to recreate Jack Butcher's thing on a PowerPoint.

[00:11:56] I didn't know that. Something like Candle existed or existed. I was trying to do it on PowerPoint. That's the medium that I know. Mm-hmm. And in fact, a couple of earlier, earlier podcast interviews by Jack, but I was literally stalking him, like and like looking at, what was the thing that, an earlier interviews, he was actually talking about the craft itself.

[00:12:14] Mm-hmm. Not the business part of it. Mm-hmm. So the crowd, he actually says that, for example, there's an, I still remember he had an interview with. David Peril and David Peril is very pretending and asking how do you create that particular visual? Got it. He actually gives a demo. This is this is a code.

[00:12:27] I break this code, I have it on my Evernote. Then take a particular thing. I look at this like this and I'm contrasting, this is how I do. He, he, I think he did it on a keynote this one and all those things he didn't know. Use fancy software or something like that. Despite having a graphic designing.

[00:12:42] Degree. So you study them, then you copy, copy and imitate them. Finally everybody are derivative and I try to become a poor version of Jack Butcher and I became a better version of myself, so,

[00:12:55] **Joseph:** wow, that's fantastic. That's a fantastic way of putting it. Yes.

[00:12:59] **Sathya:** So, so yeah, that's, that's how you, you do it. So you pick that craft and do it.

[00:13:04] **Joseph:** I love this particular example that you're given, Satya. So now let's move on to that visual side of it. Can you share some success stories somewhere where you are helped?

[00:13:16] Entrepreneurs, executives, anybody for that matter, in, in helping them think through or communicate visually. And you have been happy. They have been happy. Can, can you gimme some success stories?

[00:13:29] **Sathya:** Yeah, sure. So I can make a quote like three practical examples, but before that, like the main outcome of the, of this visual thinking, learning, communication process is clarity.

[00:13:39] Mm. So clarity and understanding for myself, For my own learning and also in communicating my ideas, thoughts to the other person. So the clarity is the ultimate goal. Un understanding comprehension. So this is the ultimate goal of visual thinking or, or whatever it might be? I think any form of communication is for clarity, right?

[00:13:58] Like that's the, the idea. Here we are upending it. Visualization of the, of the idea. So that's the main goal. And the intention is to, whether it'll increase my performance, whether it will increase my, accelerate my learning, whether it'll improve my creativity, creative capabilities, whether it'll help me give my mental declutter.

[00:14:16] So this is the. This is the intentions around with which we are playing with in that way. For example, I helped one of my, one of cxo he's actually a CMO marketing. He was trying to launch his own business. So I helped him walk through through his own ideas, through visual framing thinking of as ideas.

[00:14:34] These are all the things and all those things. And we used a thing called Miro. Miro helps you to. Place idea. So apparently he doesn't his thinking is far more superior. That's what he discovered when he's working not on obsidian, but rather than on Miro. I'm not saying this tool is better or that tool is better.

[00:14:52] Some things work better for you. Your way of thinking, your brain than the other tool. So you just have to like, discover, rediscover. This is little better sometimes. I mean sometimes what I try to do is that sometimes I take the notes in bullet form, then I also do a mind map, then also put on mirror so that that different tool and the interface makes you think little differently in a different manner.

[00:15:12] So it's nothing to do with drawing a, drawing a human figure or being artistic, a beautiful flower or something like that. It's basically like playing with different interfaces of medias where the information is processed. By you. So that's that's one thing. And another thing is that I had like this brilliant business coach.

[00:15:28] He, he's based out from a couple of them actually. They were based out from us. So I remember working with them. I was helping them with their social media marketing and all those things. Eventually I realized that they also had a very strong, special, visual way of looking at things.

[00:15:43] I, I wouldn't say I helped them launch it, but I think I influenced them to launch a community, community for their upcoming this one. So he was he was an former disciple of Tony Robbins, so I would say I was able to work with them. Another recent example that I would say is that I help like couple of my friends in designing their websites.

[00:16:01] So that is also another example. So again, designing websites, you can always do it linearly, but also you can do a mind map, blow it up. Each node is is, is a, is a, is a page, so there's a menu bar. This is about services and all those things. And what happened with another the engine that I was doing is that they realized that they were duplicating the content multiple pages.

[00:16:24] So it'll be in their board page also, it'll be in the service pages. Also, they were able to see that only after creating that. So you can also do a reverse outlining of a particular content using mind maps spatially. Then they realize that duplication, then they realize that you can simply hyperlink the page to that page.

[00:16:41] You don't have to like agree. So those kind of things could happen if you use such visual thinking learning tools. So, yeah.

[00:16:48] **Joseph:** Okay. Satya, thanks for sharing all of those things. What are the mistakes you have seen when people are starting. In this particular journey, or visual thinking or, or even communication?

[00:17:01] What are the mistakes you, you have seen people do?

[00:17:04] **Sathya:** Oh, I think it will be overthink first of all. And, and then get, get overwhelmed. I think. I think I think the, the issue itself is with the visual thinking and learning industry. I, I in some ways I don't attach myself to the industry because if you see a lot of illustrator types.

[00:17:20] Or in the visual thinking and learning. Interesting. No, I'm don't think, me, don't misunderstand me that I'm badmouthing them. But the thing is that like they, the immediate thing is that they make this beautiful aesthetically policing illustrations because they come from an art, artistic finance background.

[00:17:36] They draw these beautiful human figures and all those things. I think that's one end of the spectrum. Okay. But on the other end, you don't have to become that amazing illustrator. So to make visual thinking you don't have to have an iPad appropriate. So for example, I, I can't draw. So like, like, let me let, I can't draw.

[00:17:55] So that's why I like people like Dan. Mm. He very purposefully draws for a better way of saying ugly. Mm-hmm. It's just like a one do kind of a thing. So it's not about the the image, it's about the idea. It's not about the drawing, it's about the concept behind the drawing. That's, that's much more important.

[00:18:14] So don't know thing, don't know. Be overwhelmed by the plethora of beautiful sketch notes, visuals that you saw. That's again the reason why I like Jack Butcher. He has, basically, he uses the geometric shapes. Okay? Minimalistic, geometric shapes are the best. There will be 10 types of geometric shapes, that's all.

[00:18:32] So you, you mix and match with it. And it's a thinking behind the design, not the design itself. And very well, you can use, you can recreate all, almost everything that Jack created that I created on a PowerPoint. So that's the, that it's not the designing part. As I said, it's actually the, the thinking part, how you interpret and reinterpret the interpret the concept.

[00:18:52] So that said, don't, don't over embellish your thing. Don't try to beautify, don't add colors. Just do white background, black color. Then you can add color. Don't, don't overthink your font. And in fact, like, so that's, again, that's the reason why I like dy dual chrome or monochrome kind of an art form.

[00:19:10] That's what I sort of understand. Also, I'm not a graphic designer. I'm never going to be a graphic designer. I'm actually an information communicator and I, I'm using visuals to communicate those information. So that is my, it's just a vehicle, it's not a it's not my thing. So so if you come to my workshop, I think, I think one of, like, we, we recently conducted, one of those people said that like, thank God, Satya, you said that you don't have to draw.

[00:19:34] Because I was assuming that this, in this workshop, you will teach me to draw on, no, I don't know to draw first of all. So we can simply use the existing visual library and basically arrange the visual library as long as it makes sense to you under the audience you're communicating. So we are looking at impact, not entertainment.

[00:19:52] So that's the thing. So yeah.

[00:19:54] **Joseph:** Lovely, lovely. Satya, this visual thinking or visual communication, both of this forms, when is it most effective and when don't use it or it is less

[00:20:07] **Sathya:** suitable. So I

[00:20:10] think it's more, most effective when we are in that awareness phase. So you're elaborating, you're making sense making space either for yourself or for an audience.

[00:20:20] This one maybe more elaborate. Long form, well, like a technical document that you want to preserve for future reference. Maybe there, you can upend it with a visual, but obviously you need a long form content. Also, again, this is another sort of like like a curse of this visual thinking community.

[00:20:36] It's not visual versus verbal, right? Mm. It's actually a combination of things. So we are looking at understanding. We are not trying to create an like artificial war between. The visual form or, or, or a verbal form. So it's, it's always best to go along with it together. So, so this is sort of like a dichotomy that we, we may, could avoid.

[00:20:58] So, so during the awareness phase, you can use it then subsequently I text. Makes

[00:21:02] **Joseph:** sense. You already talked about some of the tools that you're using. Sid dn, Canva. Miro if I'm starting out, What are the tools that you would encourage me to start with and what are the tools that I can add for both, for thinking as well as for communication?

[00:21:23] **Sathya:** Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, glad that you differentiated thinking and communication. So that's, that's one thing. I mean, obviously the first thing is a notebook, so I'm a very big no notebook quota. Like you start writing like, like bullet in itself is a. It's a different way of bullet writing. Like it's in itself a different form of looking at your your content.

[00:21:44] So which, which otherwise would be paragraph way of writing things. So that's one thing. The second. Tool or process that I would recommend is mind mapping. It seems to be the most accessible form of visual thinking. You don't have to draw you're just placing existing phrases, keywords on a, on a radial structure.

[00:22:03] So mind mapping seems to be most accessible, at least in my purview. So even if mind mapping doesn't work, there's something called cluster mapping. It is little bit before mind mapping. So in, in English writing classes, so these are all pre-writing exercises, so mind mapping, cluster mapping, listing.

[00:22:19] Then after that you write the actual essay. So that is how like English professors teach this one. So these, all these pre-writing exercises are some form if you look at or non-linear. Because it's trying to capture the non-linear way of looking looking at things or at the best you can use it like an index card.

[00:22:35] You can write it on points and all those things. Now there are digital versions of it. So there is something called X Mind. I'm an ambassador of X Mind. You can also use camera. Camera itself has a whiteboard format where you can dump ideas. There are. Like, like digital sticky notes that you can start using.

[00:22:50] Miro is another thing which you can also use as a collaborative thing. Miros Par comes when it is collaborative thing. And that's why, so you can use it as a group thinking platform. And can obviously I also use it mainly for creating app where I'm communicating to an external audience. Also so, so notion, I use it for organization document.

[00:23:10] So these are the wide variety of tools. Again just a caveat don't be stuck with the tool. Obviously. I think every, so you, you start somewhere, be, be attached to the process and more importantly, be attached to the problem that you're trying to solve, rather than the tool itself. Whichever process.

[00:23:27] That you feel works best for you, just go. So that's my suggestion. Okay,

[00:23:32] **Joseph:** Satya. Okay. I have, I have started using any of these tools. I have started to create some of the visuals and I'm also sharing some of those visuals. As you said, now, there's a whole bunch of sea of people who are come in in this particular visual space. How can I stand out? How do you stand out as a visual communicator?

[00:23:53] **Sathya:** So I,

[00:23:53] I'll, I'll actually reverse it. Like why do you want to stand up? Mm-hmm. And, and do you want to stand out for like a particular set of audience. I mean, if you know that, then it's, it's much more, little more clear. In fact, I mean, you may, you may end up offending a lot of people.

[00:24:09] So, so I think that we have to live with it. Like there are, there are enough people who have criticized me like, what is this? This is not even visual. Like, you're not even using multiple colors. You're not drawing, you're literally taking from existing library. Why are you using camera? You should use Figma and create your own.

[00:24:24] This one. No, I don't want to use Figma and create my own like a system. This one, Figma, I mean, camera already has a library. I'm just going to like steal it from them. And the, the, the, my creativity is the placement of it. Every, every one of us are going to face such kind of a criticism as long as you appeal to that particular set of audience that you want to. Address and attack and communicate. I earlier had an had a thing of becoming this influencer, like having like a million followers.

[00:24:53] Then I wanted like, at least let me become a micro influencer. Then I thought at least I should get 10,000 followers. Then I'm thinking of, no, I don't want to become both of them. Can I make money leveraging my creativity? So, so it's not about followership, it's not about standing out, it's not about the likes and all those things.

[00:25:10] And it seems that I appeal to a certain type of audience. And as long as that cashflow is met, in some ways I think I'm happy. My client is happy. Can I solve this problem for myself, for the client using this vehicle, using this tool?

[00:25:25] If that is done, then I'm, I'm sort of happy. Yeah. So, yeah.

[00:25:29] **Joseph:** Satya over the entire period that I've been talking to you for the last 30 minutes or so. One thing come that comes off really well is the clarity that you have. Okay? So one of the things that you talked about is the benefit of visual thinking and visual communication is that clarity.

[00:25:52] It seems to me that for every question that I ask, there's a very, very clear thinking and answer. So for me, it looks like that the proof is here. You seem to have that particular gain, that particular clarity. So I'm glad with that. Satya I'll, I'll ask this particular question before I move on to the next segue to the next one.

[00:26:13] It is not just one offering that you have, it is not just the one revenue stream that you have. You are, you are making this visual. You already talked about a tiered one where you are only making a visual, then you are offering a service and a consulting. You also sell digital goods via Gumroad. You have written a book.

[00:26:30] Talk to me about how are you thinking about having this multiple revenue streams? How do you put to your work in all of those multiple revenue stream making ventures? Talk to me a little more about

[00:26:40] **Sathya:** that. Oh yeah. So I mean, first of all, like, I mean, I can, I can say that like it's all planned from day one.

[00:26:48] It wasn't it somebody saying like that they're lying. So. So I didn't have any grand use plan, but basically I was experimenting. Then realize that there is a, there is a there's a method to the madness apparently. I think you were the one, you are one of the ones who introduced me to the concept of value ladder.

[00:27:04] And you have a $10 product. You have a hundred dollars product, you need to have a thousand dollars product. So, so like, again, I'm looking at it as a pyramid. And it sort of stuck me, the, and you have multiple frameworks, and I think you also gave me another better way of framing it as the barbell strategy.

[00:27:21] Mm. You you not only have a $10 product, you also have this heavy lifting A thousand dollars project, the sales cycle is going to be really, really long. It's going to be high touch, high value, and at the same time, you don't need like a hundred or even a thousand people. You just need like two to three customers, clients a thousand dollars or $2,000 client per year.

[00:27:42] And you're sorted, then you do it repeat it the next year, the next year or something like that. Then the a hundred dollar could be like a lead generation for it. The $10 could be even more version of it, and of course you'll have free versions of it. A treat is a free version of leading your audience.

[00:27:57] I think you had a beautiful a metaphor like entrance to your stadium. Mm. Again, look, that's why I like this visual metaphor. So, so you have, you you have helped me to think in that way. So, so multiple gateways. So, and you have this, one of those gateways. I also have newsletters and obviously, so how can you put your work before your audience, through social media, through LinkedIn, through your newsletter then lead them to buy your $10 product.

[00:28:22] Then lead them to buy you a $1,000 service, or a $200 workshop. Then 200 workshop works, converts into consulting. So this is the sort of like a path I think. I think anybody who's listening to your podcast wouldn't already know this. And I, I mean, I, I could tell that it works. I could tell that I validate the fact that, yeah, it seems to make sense and you need to have this plethora of things.

[00:28:45] But the mistake that I made earlier is that, I went from a $10 product to a thousand dollars product. I think now it makes far more sense to actually have a thousand dollars product and, and downgrade and have a a $10 product. Now, if at all, I'm doing it in a more intelligent way. So 2, 2, 2, 3 things will happen.

[00:29:02] So a thousand dollars product, obviously it's a high ticket, high launch, you'll make money far more quicker. The competition is less. You don't have to have this so-called online credibility. You have to find a friend of a friend of a friend. We will be able to have a problem that that you can do.

[00:29:17] So that's one thing. The second thing that will happen is that you'll actually be in the trenches. Mm. You'll actually learn the, the, the, the, the problem that you, you're not reading some ebook and understanding the problem. You're actually working with a client and understanding the problem deeply, so you'll, you are increasing the authority.

[00:29:35] And third, more importantly, what will happen is that, You'll identify certain patterns in the in the problem. So if you work with five clients, you'll understand that these are all the problems they're facing. Then it'll help you to make your a hundred dollars offer, then $10 offer. So, so if I'm doing it smart way I would, I would.

[00:29:53] Recommend everybody. I know it'll not be an easy task. Mm-hmm. But this, I feel that much more, much more a smarter way of of doing it. And of course, we all would love to have a hundred dollar product selling to millions of people. But you have only one James Clear. You have only one just in Wich. So apparently it doesn't work for a lot of.

[00:30:13] People, again, if you want to take the route please ensure that, know that James Clear has been writing for past 20 years. Ah, only in the past four, four years. He, he became this huge success. So, so let's be mindful of that. So,

[00:30:26] **Joseph:** yeah. Yeah. The overnight success is always a decade in making. Yeah, yeah,

[00:30:29] **Sathya:** exactly.

[00:30:30] Even more. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:30:32] **Joseph:** Satya, if I may press you a little more, you talked about this thousand dollar product offering a hundred dollar offering, $10 offering. In your own business? How would that look like? What's a, what's that thousand dollars offering? What's that? A hundred dollars offering? What's that $10 offering?

[00:30:49] **Sathya:** Oh, yeah, it's, so $10 is my, like a curated a pdf and notion document of all my visuals. So previously it was there, like, now it's no more selling. I think there was a peak of the visual this one then it, it, it, I think it, it plateaued and So, so I made some money out of that that led me to, like, people asking me like, can you do visuals for me?

[00:31:08] Mm. There was a time in season when people are asking me for visuals. So I would do, like, previously I was doing, like, I'll do two visuals for you. So a hundred hundred dollars, $200. Now I offer it as a package saying that, no, I'll not do two, two visuals. It's too much of I'll do bunch of 10 initials.

[00:31:23] You don't have to pay me a thousand. Maybe you can pay me 700. So I, I offer it as a package and. With the caveat because it's high ticket and the conversation is much more this one, then slowly, this is also panning out. And what is much more making sense now is social media support. So I'll not only create visuals, I'll also help you in creating a, I have a G sheet.

[00:31:42] So I, I. Share them. This is a G sheet that I have, I can help you to do that. So I have like a couple of clients that I'm working with. I'm not doing a marketing strategy. Mm. I'm simply helping them. You have existing content. I'm repurposing your content as a thread, as a visual, as an infographic, et cetera.

[00:31:58] For your audience, it would help you to bring more newsletter subscribers, more Twitter followers. Then eventually they might buy whatever offering here. It could be a cause, it could be an app that I'm selling that, that you're selling. So that's. The the, the, the next level kind of a thing. Again, as I said, it's not something that I had planned.

[00:32:17] Day one, it eventually happened. Hey, sat, can you do it also? Mm-hmm. Then you realize that, okay, these are the things even people don't know. Mm. Then if people don't know, that's an opportunity you can capture and say that, like, for example, people don't know there is a, you can automate. Social media scheduling.

[00:32:32] People just don't know. I mean, we, we take it for granted. People don't know that you can, you can automate. There is a, there are multiple automation tools that you can share it on Twitter High Query so that you can, and I do the work for one one day and it can, I can, I can share it for the next 10 days or something like that, that support people need, converting a blog article into a thread itself.

[00:32:54] A, it's a requirement, so you just have to find that particular thing. And you learn the trick as you do that that consulting and, and to do that. So a reason again there might be an issue where I'm, maybe I'm oversimplifying certain things. Mm. But the reason is that I may want to the listener who is listening not to feel overwhelmed that it is some, some Some, some, like, you have to have like a master plan to do something.

[00:33:19] You start somewhere, you figure out something and you, you, you, you find a way out and sometimes this way there will be a deadline. Then you come back and do another way of looking at it and So, so that's so now this, this, this quarter for example, I think we had a conversation earlier before, so I've been experimenting with doing lot of live experiences.

[00:33:40] My live experience, I'm talking about workshops. So, so my, so I'm doing less of a thousand dollars gigs and $10 I have tried out. So I'm no, I no more want to do the $10 thing. I'm doing a hundred dollar workshops. Mm. So where people are coming for, and these workshops are converting far more. Efficiently in $2,000 weeks.

[00:34:00] Mm. So, so some 20 people come we got two clients from the past three months. The workshops we have done like five workshops. So two clients, three months out of workshop is actually a good, so a hundred people we have attacked. So two person is conversion rate. So it's, it's actually a good conversion.

[00:34:17] If you look at, so I'm using workshops. Both as its own standalone revenue stream, as well as could be after effect is consulting. That makes sense. So that's the, that's the point.

[00:34:28] **Joseph:** Fantastic roadmap that you're laying out for anybody who wants to start, not only from a visual business point of view, but, but for any creativity also.

[00:34:38] This is a fantastic roadmap. Satya, thank you. It, it just a small, you know, often our masterclass on doing business online, so I'm, I'm grateful for one of my insights that you have shared. Satya Satya. For every guest I ask three rapid fire questions. So, so here we go. Sure. What's the kindest thing anyone has done for you?

[00:35:03] **Sathya:** Okay. I could ac, I mean, I could think of my father and mother. So, so kindest thing is accepting your mistake. That's a good mistake.

[00:35:12] **Joseph:** Okay. This podcast is about leadership Satya in that sense, can you share what do you think as the best leadership quality and who has manifested in your life?

[00:35:25] **Sathya:** I think I had my one, one team leader. I think I can share his name. His name is Krishna Ti. And in my career trajectory I was, I was working in working in a profile that did not suit me at all. So, so despite being bright and all those things, I was not fit for that particular role.

[00:35:42] So I literally had to run away from the job. And Then in the same organization, I was basically transferred to another job. So he actually, I remember like the, the first week we had a conversation. He said that, Satya, I face the same issue. Hmm. And then subsequently after that, I found my niche here, my thing here, and previously I was assuming that I have to master whatever was given to me.

[00:36:09] Then he was the one who told me, no, you have to master what comes to you. So you learn to master everything. For example, I'm not a good manager. Mm, per se, but I'm better at desktop work for, for saying it in a broad, broad manner. So I like intellectual challenge rather than like convincing somebody or, or the sales kind of negotiating skills or people work people.

[00:36:31] So you have to find that thing that comes to you and that the fact that that person, Krish Moji was able to empathize with me and share it with me, that he was also considered a failure. When he also started his career journey and tell that like now he's leading the entire unit. And that, that tells me that that gave me, so that's a leadership.

[00:36:52] I believe that sort of Lovely.

[00:36:54] **Joseph:** Thank you. Thank you. Finally Satya, what is your definition of living a good life?

[00:36:59] **Sathya:** Oh, okay. That's a big question. When you can sleep calmly in the night, maybe, maybe that's a definition. No, I'm not sure whether it is, we're not sure somebody like that. Like, like you tire yourself out and then the sleep, you don't have to wait for the sleep.

[00:37:19] The sleep comes to you. Something like that. I mean, I went through a sort of a mini crisis earlier. I couldn't sleep. I had to force myself to sleep. I used to sleep like one o'clock, two o'clock. I think some changes are happening now where I don't have to force myself to sleep. The sleep is coming. I think that could be like a good definition of like, at least currently in my season, that's how I'm defined.

[00:37:42] **Joseph:** Thank you. Thank you, Satya. Thank you for sharing your insights about. Visuals, building a business and your life also.

[00:37:49] Thank you so much, Satya.

[00:37:50] **Sathya:** Well, thank you so much for the invitation and thank you for all the mentoring support. Like I, I mean, not many people would know that this is not the first conversation we are having. We had multiple conversation and you've been guiding and you're on all those rare people who understand both the greater economy at a global international level.

[00:38:07] But also an Indian mindset, I think. I think, and you have been really helpful in that way. For that. I really appreciate, never, ever thought that I'll be a guest on your podcast, but after a lot of scheduling and reassuring, I think we, we finally made it and really appreciate you doing this and appreciate it.

[00:38:28] Thank you.

[00:38:28] **Joseph:** Thank you, Satya. I hope you enjoyed our conversation. Can I request you to share the key takeaways from our conversation? If you liked our conversation, please share the podcast with others. Have a life of Vince.