Gravitas WINS Radio

Joseph Jude 0:03
Hello and welcome to Gravitas WINS conversations. Two years back, I attended and workshop by some work, and it changed my perspective about LinkedIn. I followed the tips that he gave in the workshop, and I benefited immensely from them. Today, we are gonna discuss how to use LinkedIn to grow your career, no matter whether you are a junior, or a senior executive in the organization. I'm sure it is going to be extremely useful to you. Hello, Sampark Welcome to the conversation.

Sampark 0:35
Thank you, Joseph. It's an absolute pleasure being here.

Joseph Jude 0:40
You such an inspiring life story Sampark. I was reading through it, as I was getting prepared for this conversation. From selling TVs in a small electronic workshop you have come a long way. Can you share, from your own mouth, your story?

Sampark 0:58
So Joseph, I come from a small town called Jamshedpur. And it was post 12th that I moved to Bombay. And I was I was a commerce student in 11th, and 12th. So by default, a lot of people told me commerce student you should do CA. That's, how I started my coaching for CA. But a few months into it, I realized, this is not what I want to do all my life, I knew that if I sat through it, I would become a chartered accountant. But it was not going to be enjoyable. So I got back home, I dropped out of it, I was still trying to figure out what I wanted to do. And that is where while I was in my graduation, I was trying to do a little bit of part time jobs and a little extra buck on the side. And that's where I started selling TVs in an electronics store. So every morning has to go to college evening, I used to be selling TVs. And that is where I got that whole kick of sales, marketing, interacting with customers, watching them and being able to convince them and that's where I decided, okay, this is what seems to be what I enjoy. And that's where then the whole MBA thing came in and I felt okay, this is what I want to do. So then I went in, did my MBA. 2010 came out, I was in the middle of that whole financial crisis came out without a placement. So it was still a shaky stage that worked with a small organization for a year till 2011. And that's where I got my big liquidation pits.

So I was with Asian Paints for close to five years, handled three different roles across the three major verticals. So I handled Channel Sales for them for a couple of years, then I handled institutional sales for them, then I was also looking after their services being there. So this was all across Calcutta, East Bengal on that belt was where my major stint in Asia Paints was there. But then 2015 I moved into the whole startup thing there, I moved to Ola, went into a hardcore marketing role. So everything from your alliances, your ATL BTL, or the offers that you got all the discounts that you got all the all the contests that were there during that time, was something that me and my team were running, handled various markets during that stint, and was with Ola for three years. 2018. Unlike a lot of people, I went back from marketing to sales, joined Oyo, I was leading a 220 member team, at OYO all from the sales, bit of corporate sales, travel agencies, etc. So that was that was my corporate journey.

But on the side, there was a passion where I was writing on LinkedIn, I've been writing on LinkedIn now for six years. 2016, approximately was the time where I started writing. A lot of people started resonating with the content, it was never written for the audience. It was always written for myself, initially, but then people started coming back. Okay, it's cool. They were resonating with it till the time LinkedIn recognized it. So 2019, I won the LinkedIn Spotlight Award. So that was an award by LinkedIn, recognizing the top 14 content creators on the platform. That's where I felt okay, now that if LinkedIn says it, maybe it is good.

So it was around that time where I started wondering,should I look at and I was enjoying the whole training, mentoring stuff there. 2019 I also want the top 100 marketing and sales professionals in the country. But then the whole COVID thing came in, I was leading events for Oyo at that time, hospitality went down, events went down. So somewhere down the line, most of us went on an unpaid leave. So I said okay, now this is the time that I can experiment. That's where I started this venture of mine "SamparkSeSampark" gave myself four months, it went better than what I expected. Gave myself another four months, it went better than what I expected. And it's exactly two years now. And I'm still here. And I don't think I would be going back into my corporate journey.

Hope so I don't need to. But yes, that's that's my corporate journey, followed by my entrepreneurial journey.

Joseph Jude 5:24
It's a fantastic story Sampark, I read through it, I listened to it. I said, my audience should hear this. Thank you for sharing it. And what I'm also seeing is you kept on experimenting. Yes, your parents or the society said, You need to go for CA You went for CA But then you did like it came back. But you kept experimenting one thing or the other. And then here you are. Well recognized by LinkedIn also. So congrats for that as well.

See, at that time Twitter was also there. Was there any reason why you focused on LinkedIn, and not on Twitter, because a lot of people are building their followers on Twitter.

Sampark 6:08
See, very frankly, when I jumped into this, I never jumped into this with this whole personal branding thing. The whole personal branding thing came in much later where I realized, okay, people are recognizing me for this. So I went into LinkedIn with the very same objective that everybody does - I need to look for a job? So I went there. And I started writing and sharing casually because very soon I realized, Okay, why will somebody give me a job. So if I write to Joseph and say, Joseph, give me a job, he does not know who I am, he does not know that there is a Sampark who exists. So they will be surely something that I need to do more before I go about asking people. And that's one thing that I tell a lot of my people on a training, it's not about playing a victim card on the platform. So I started writing with that intention of okay, maybe it helps you in my job, maybe, etc. And somewhere it was more of a bug or more of a drug that I got stuck there. And Twitter is something that now considering that I've gone into this whole coaching business, I've now started teaching social media, now is something that I've started working on very late in this journey. That was the reason why I didn't go for Twitter. That was the reason why I stuck on to LinkedIn. But I've been very, very fortunate that LinkedIn worked for me, I have met very, very awesome people, like yourself as well. And trust me, it works. There are so many people who say LinkedIn does not work, people only give gyan, people don't help.

What I tell people is that if you go with the intention of taking, you will not get anything. But if you go with the intention of giving, then you get then you don't need to take it's a strong word play here. But when you go with that whole non transactional or non monetary thought process, it will work. But if you start having every conversation with this, what is in it for me, then then it's a very transactional relationship that works out. So I think that's what people need to realize. And I think that's what works on the platform as well.

Joseph Jude 8:12
You're already share two of the things you wrote casually. That's one, it was not anything formal, but very casual. That's one two, you said, you need to go with the sense of giving and not really taking. There is another guest, he said, If you want to play in the creative economy, then you need to have the, the feeling of generosity, right, you need to give only when you give, you will be able to you the other benefits will come. So I resonate with what you're talking about now. So you have gone into the coaching, and you're coached quite a lot of people, any story that stands out, whether it be entrepreneur story, somebody started a startup and then thrived because of that, or because they got a career, boost, anything, anything that you can share.

Sampark 9:04
So see, there have been a lot of bits and pieces story. I'll give you a few examples. One, if I talk from a reach perspective, if I tell you my maximum reach on the platform, a for one post was a 1.2 million, which is a 12 lakh kind of attraction and I was very, very proud of the whole fact. The day where that broke, one of my students breached that number. He finished a post on the 3.5 million views. That one post that was 35 lakhs. And that's where and obviously, when we when he did my session, he was somewhere around 4000 5000 followers. Today, he's somewhere around 35 40,000 himself. So that's from the creation bit of it. There have been multiple cases where people have come to me saying, and I give this example in my sessions as well, where people have got jobs from the platform without giving interviews. So people have sat through my sessions ever I've given this example and somebody came back two months later and said, somebody, this happened with me as well. Why is that? So? Because when he got that so called offer from somebody, he said, Sir, what about the interview? He said, in a 15 minute interview, you can fake. But I've been reading your content for the last 365 days, you can't fake your mindset for a year. So I already understand your mindset, you're okay, we might have a discussion on what the role might be what you need to deliver. But I don't have a doubt on who you are, your knowledge, etc. So you mentioned about generosity, okay. Now, I just switched that question back to where you came from, rather than an example is, if I go there with saying, by surveys by my coaching by my end, nobody's going to buy it, because then people realize what I'm doing. But if I go there, talking about sharing my knowledge on marketing, sharing my knowledge on sales, for me that generated to business because a Joseph recognizes, okay, this guy knows his stuff for a corporate professional that converts into jobs, because the reader who might be a recruiter who might be an employer, who knows, okay, this guy's talking so much about marketing. He's writing so much, he knows his stuff. So that was when this guy started creating content, and he got job offers out of it. So so that's, so there are two different examples there where people have got jobs across, plus the whole power of networking. If I could share my example, as well. Today, I get at least 100 leads out of LinkedIn organically, without spending a single rupee. I spend my time on creating the content. Yes, that time is money, I understand. But literally, I don't have to spend anything. So there are numerous examples. From a business perspective. There are numerous examples from jobs perspective, there are numerous from a content creator perspective, that this platform is something which can be a goldmine for a lot of us.

Oh, absolutely. I agree. Without LinkedIn, I wouldn't be meeting you and having this particular conversation. We don't know each other. So. So it has been fantastic platform so far, some back now, you already talked about creating content? And you said, in an informal content is What does really well. Can we go a little deeper in that in the sense that, like, say, for example, a lot of times what happens, I'm coming from our tech industry, software industry, we know how to write code. We don't know how to write any of these informal thing that you're talking about. So how can I get started? What kind of content can I share on LinkedIn.

So it need not be only informal, it always has to be a balance. Because when you're talking about informal content, that might get you the reach. But when you want to build yourself as a thought leader, you need to show your technical knowledge as well. So it always has to be a mix. Now, there are a couple of mistakes where technical people when if you talk from a technical people or people who come from a niche industry, I tell people don't get caught in this old rut of likes, views, etc. Yes, I might have thrown in examples of 1.2 million views. 3.5 million views. But Joseph might come back and say Sampark, I don't need that mass reach. My industry is small, my industry is limited. I need to reach my certain audience that is that I don't want virality it's absolutely okay. Each of us should be sure what we are here for. Today, a Sampark might need mass reach, or Joseph might not. So first, you need to be very clear of your objective your needs, who your target audience is, and then you start creating content out of it. Very simple. Your industry if I tell you write 10 tips and write 10 lines on each you can it those 10 tips, if you post twice a week, your 5 weeks content is ready. So if you are an expert in your industry, you can write now you will say supper, everybody's written on it. Most people are writing what's new. The fact is 98% People don't write on the platform, only 2% do. So the very fact you start writing you beat the 98% of your competition. And yes, the golden rules will remain the same. How you put it is going to be making the difference. So the bottom line is stop procrastinating. Stop overthinking. People say what will I put about what will people think? What if I make a fool of myself? Nobody has time everybody's worried about themselves. So it's very important to take that plunge. And once you've taken that plunge, it's very important to stay consistent. The I don't call myself a very good writer. My wife laughs at my posts sometimes she's I don't absolutely understand why people like your posts. But the only thing which I credit credit to being my success story on LinkedIn is consistency. I have stuck to it for six years. There are people who write absolutely lovely. I posts, some people whom I admire. And three, four months later, they're gone. They've got a job and a story. They got what they came here for End of story. But the fact is, if you're building your brand, it is not a one time thing. It's always when when I mentioned that, it's about giving and not taking, if you come in desperate times, you will only come to take. So the problem is people come here, when they have lost a job, when they need a job and they're in, or I need to do it right now, then you will be forced to be desperate. But you come here, when everything is good. So that God forbid, a year later, two years later, something goes wrong. You have that net security net to fall back on. And, yes, it is. It sounds cliche, I know it sounds gyan, but I have lived every bit of what I'm saying. So when when I moved out, the I know a lot of people who moved out and started things of their own, a lot of them went back, because it's difficult to become an entrepreneur and stick to it. Because you can go into consulting, you can go into coaching, but it's a very different ballgame. Lead Generation is the biggest pain point. Because all our lives, we are known by the brands we work for, oh, he's the head of sales that oh, what he's, he hates marketing at Ola. But do people know Sampark? So if you ask people, Who are you the first thing to say I bought this company. I think COVID has proven that job security is a myth. So so because it's also the only brand which you need to genuinely work on is your name. And I think that that's where can be a transformational journey for everybody.

Joseph Jude 16:48
Wonderful. So you already talked about this content. I've seen some people post once a week, sometimes once a day, there are people who post every hour, are there any time slots that you would recommend? What's a good practice.

Sampark 17:03
So if you talk from a frequency perspective, see, it's not the frequency, it's how the longevity of your posts. It's not about going full blast, one post for 30 days, and then you're out of contact. If you go to the gym for 30 days, nonstop, it does not give you results. You go to gym twice a week, but you go for a year, it will give you results. So you have to be at your comfort level somebody like me who breathes LinkedIn, whose business runs on LinkedIn. For me, it's one post a day, for a lot of clients that I work with, because there are a lot of senior leaders whom I work very closely in running their show on the platform for them. It's two posts a week, I tell people you can start with once a week as well. But ensure that once a week means do it for a year. You because it's not you will not get results. If you go fast. As again, a cliche statement, it's not a sprint, it's a marathon. So, so run slow, but run long. That's that that's the kicker there. And otherwise, then post. Generally, weekdays mornings is what works.

Joseph Jude 18:14
Okay. Okay. So now let's say for example, there are, I'm a junior level person who has joined I'm straight out of college, probably I have up to three, four years of experience. What benefit can LinkedIn give me?

Sampark 18:31
See, when somebody like me who passed out 12,15 years back, we never had the chance to learn from somebody who's very senior. Yes, LinkedIn still was there. But it was very small at that time. Today, at a 20 to 22 year old, you have the chance to learn you have the chance to network, you have the chance to connect for a lot of us and you being fairly experienced in the industry. People realize very late in their careers, at least another five, six years that you don't get jobs on naukri.com Your majority jobs are your ex bosses, your contacts are referrals. So it's the faster you start working on this, the better it is today. For us when we started our career, who would you use your industry you you your your company knew who you were, but a platform like LinkedIn is the world is open. There is no geographical boundary, there's no restriction. You can connect directly with somebody who's very senior through your content, you can create a brand for yourself. And that's that's how it works. So when you say investments are about the early you start your personal branding is also how early you start. So okay, so I people again, youngsters don't realize it, but the faster you get onto the bandwagon, the better it is for you.

Joseph Jude 19:48
Absolutely. Right, right. See, you talked about networking. And again, I'm talking from a software industry perspective or probably my own questions as well as Is that I can write probably, I got what you said. So I started writing, and people are connecting with me. I don't know what to do after that after somebody has sent me a request, I leave it or do I have to follow up? How do I follow up? What should I tell them? I have absolutely no idea. What should I do?

Sampark 20:20
See, what I tell a lot of people is LinkedIn is not about the number of connections you have some people in their headline have 15,000 connections, 20,000 connections, what will you do others 40,000 connections? What matters is how many of those connections know you. How many of the connections you know? Because end of the day, if you're talking about business generation, or jobs, okay, I speak to you, we have a very casual conversation, you might not have a job for me. But tomorrow, when you're talking to someone else, then there is a brand recall of me. So it's about building those conversations. I understand you can't build conversations with everybody there. So point is when you connect with someone, drop them a casual. Hope you're doing well. Thanks for connecting, tie building a conversation. When the person resonates you realize is this guy interested in talking. So I what I tell people is that out of a platform like LinkedIn, even if you're able to do one zoom call a week, on one phone call a week, you will never know where that which jackpot will open. So I know I have met over the years, I've met over hundreds of people out of the LinkedIn platform, even physical meetings. So we've bought up over a cup of coffee. I genuinely loved your content, would love to have a conversation with somebody I spoke to this morning, he messaged me saying Sampark, We've been connected on LinkedIn for a year, but you've never had a chance to talk, would you? Would you be open to a phone call. And we genuinely had a conversation for 15-20 minutes. Yes, situations might get awkward. Sometimes it will not turn out the way it is. But every conversation that you have in your world will not be a jackpot. But you never know, which is that one jackpot that will work. I'll give you an example. There was somebody that I met for a cup of coffee a couple of years back, while I was discussing with the person there. He mentioned that there's somebody that I should interact with. Because now that we've had a conversation, she said, Okay, there's another friend of mine, whom I met on LinkedIn, you will surely resonate with him. I ended up meeting that gentleman. Then I did one session for his group of people. In that group, there was somebody who was based out of Dubai, he invited me for a session in Dubai. From that session, then I did a session Qatar, I did a session for the complete Middle East, I ended up doing five sessions across Middle East from that bid there. I got consultancies out of US, Canada, Morocco, Spain, Bahrain, Qatar, Singapore, Australia, I generated lakhs of business, all originating from that one cup of coffee. So that's, so that's those, those are the lovely stories which come out and just drop in a compliment to someone just comment on somebody's post. It's all about building those conversations. It's not about the profile, a lot of people get said, I have a profile. But it's like having a website with absolutely no traffic on it. It's your work to get traffic onto that platform.

Joseph Jude 23:25
Yeah. And as I was telling you, before we started this recording, I started following it up, I will drop into people's inbox and say, Hey, would you like to have a conversation? And most of the people will respond. And almost every week, I've been having at least one call with somebody and I learn a lot from them. So it has been absolutely fantastic to follow that particular thing. Sampark: Okay, so I have connected and all of these things that I can do all of them work on the free version of LinkedIn, or should I be in a premium version only then all of this will work?

Sampark 24:03
See, it depends on each individual. Because the premium is not a from an Indian context, it's not very affordable, it is a little costly. So having a premium or not having a premium does not impact your visibility. So you still get that level of traction. With premium you get a certain extra features that are there, which each of us need to decide, is it worth the ROI. So if you're looking from a sales perspective, there are people who say my product is worth two lakhs. If I can sell even one in the year, I have my ROI on that. But there is somebody who says my product is 500 rupees, but I am not being able to sell as much out of it. So what I tell people is one, do not go for the premium immediately. First, get your hands on to the platform, get used to the consistency and get yourself get the hang of it. And once you've done that, use the trial for yourself. And then understand does it work for you? And then take a call. Why do I say don't take a trial initially, because you yourself are trying to figure out the platform. So use it once you are comfortable so that you can use the trial well, and then you can decide for yourself is premium required or not. But if you're saying, okay, will I get increased visibility because of premium? No, that's, that's, that's not a major part of it. Your content, your quality and your consistency depends.

Joseph Jude 25:28
Okay. Thanks for that now. Okay, so we talked about a junior level candidate, I completely get the point that you're talking about. But let's say for example, I'm 50 years old, I have had my career, I'm doing well. And I'm looking forward towards my end of my career. Why would I be on LinkedIn? What benefit does LinkedIn give me?

Sampark 25:50
See, for somebody who's very senior, once you're around 50, you're moving towards your financial freedom, you want to work as per your jobs, you don't want to get into that whole job thing. So a lot of people want to move into consulting, taking those side gigs, building that side, hustle, wanting to move into academies, etc. So that's, again, something that you can do, because you've been in the industry for 20 years, the industry knows you, but do the masses know you. And I think that's where, yes, I not 50 year old, but when I started doing my guest lectures, etc. And I started posting about it, and I started sharing, I started getting calls for more sessions and more trainings, and more consulting, etc. So for them, you come, you create your content, you share your experiences over the years. And it gives you that slow transformation from maybe a full time thing into something which you do, as per your own convenience. Because a lot of people don't want to go from a full income to a retirement of sitting at home, they don't know how to make that transition. This is a good thing that in your latter years, you build that perception about yourself. So even if you want to go into getting sessions or doing courses or becoming a teacher, or whatever, or you want to just take up advisory roles or consulting roles. I think that's, that's, again, it's something that you can look at. Okay. And last, sorry, sorry, now that I speak to you, there is another thing is when you are preparing for senior roles, it is not only about the kind of work that you're doing. It's also about the people person that you are your knowledge, your expertise, it's about building that thought leadership, it's about building that credibility. So if you are preparing for that CXO role, or that VP role today, for senior hires, it's not only your work, it's also your digital footprint. What, what, how, as a leader, are you so this again, becomes so even if you want to stick in the corporate journal, but you're preparing for your top notch roles, this is a good place to come and show that as well.

Joseph Jude 27:59
Yeah, I think one of the things that I hear consistently in our conversation is do things before you need them. Absolutely. So you also did that even when you were in the corporate one, you started working in LinkedIn, you started writing in LinkedIn. And that that gave you the benefit when it was absolutely needed. I see that as as a common thread across many of the answers that you're given.

Sampark 28:26
Absolutely, I totally agree to that. Because then again, as I said, Don't come here when you are desperate, come here, well in advance with it. Because building a brand takes time, it is not an overnight, they give you writing for one month, who knows you for to build credibility takes time. And that's where you need to come here before you genuinely need it.

Joseph Jude 28:46
Okay, so how long does it take? So I understand you cannot expect a short term result. But does it take a month to again, let's say for example, every week one every day, one post I posted? How long does it take even to get some kind of result? Some kind of attraction? How long does it take?

Sampark 29:04
So I will not give you an exact number. But yes, a few months is what you need. Because it's not only about external stakeholders, it talks about internal stakeholders, your organization, people start recognizing you people within the organization because generally with your bosses with your scenes, you're talking reviews, you're talking about targets, but where does your boss know that you know stuff beyond what you are you are thinking on the larger picture. So it's not only about showcasing to the world outside, I know in Oyo, a lot of my colleagues are even up to the as high the leadership as you can go. People recognized me for my content on LinkedIn. I remember walking into sales pitches, VP level sales pitches for clients, and he said I recognize some purchase of butter. So you can understand that my conversation absolutely transformed there. So absolutely. So few months into it. You will start realizing people are noticing And then it is a game of momentum, the longer you stay, the faster it moves.

Joseph Jude 30:06
I understand Sampark that you cannot really go by likes and comments, and so on and so forth. But when you're starting, and when you really don't get any likes, you lose that momentum, you lose that kind of an enthusiasm. So how do you what do you recommend in your program?

Sampark 30:24
See, if you go back, and if you somebody does take that pain of scrolling down 2000 posts, you will realize that that is exactly where I started. Now, what kept me going was I was never writing for the audience. Now, suppose I am down, okay, I am writing to motivate myself. So that 20 minutes of when I'm researching on what to write, I am reading so much of good stuff that my own motivation used to come up. So if you start going with that intention of saying, I know it's absolutely human to say, Are people liking it or not, but that the game to it is that stick to it, that is why only a few people are able to succeed most are not because most give up. So, you will have to be self motivated, you will have to keep pushing yourself, you like it or not that okay, likes are not coming, you will have to motivate yourself. That's that's the only answer to it.

Joseph Jude 31:20
So when you're talking about this, the related question to that is, would you want to write natively on the platform? Or would you would you be okay to share via sheduled tool scheduling tools? Like Like, say, for example, buffer or anything? Is that Is that okay? What's your recommendation on

Sampark 31:37
that? Very frankly, I do not recommend any tools for LinkedIn, neither do I use it for myself? Neither do I use it for my clients, neither do I use it for any of my students. Because again, most of these tools are not recognized by LinkedIn themselves. So while there are a lot of people out there who teach you tools, and growth hacking and data scraping and stuff like that, it's not approved by LinkedIn. So anytime, if LinkedIn pulls the plug, your accounts gone. And there are there are so many of my people who have come to me and say to Sampark, this is what I'm in, I'm in trouble here. So both risky. If you have to write content, you don't want to write it on the platform, write it in your notes, write it on a word, Doc, etc. If people want to create content in advance, keep it there. And you can just copy, paste and post. Because again, tools is a slight risky feature till the time LinkedIn comes and says, Okay, this is the tool that I approve of, I would recommend people not to do so.

Joseph Jude 32:40
We talked quite a bit about your coaching program. Can you tell me what you coach, especially for individuals right now, not b2b? Not for corporates. But for individuals? What's the coaching program that you gave from a LinkedIn perspective? And how can people reach out to you on

Sampark 32:55
For LinkedIn, then I have two ways that I work, actually three ways that I work with people. One way people, if they're looking for a online course, which is a pre recorded course that I have, which is on my website, it's a three hour module where you can go, you can consume it at your convenience at your pace. But that's a pre recorded thing. So you can go to my website, you can purchase it there. Now there is somebody who comes out and says, I want to have a live one on one with you, I want a customized thing for my objective, then I have a 30 day mentoring, live thing there, where over the one month, I do three sessions, split across one on the profile one on the content on the networking bit. And that spread across way, like this conversation, it's a one on one conversation by me doing. The third part of it is where senior leaders, when I started doing this consulting, start came back to me and said, somebody, I can't do this. I understand it requires a lot of effort. Can you help me do it. So now I have a team at the backend also, who works with me for a lot of these senior leaders hand holding them in running the show on the platform as well. So people can go to my website if they want the pre recorded thing, they can connect there. If they want the one on one thing, they can reach out to me, which is again, on my email some purchases of work@gmail.com. And I will be very, very happy to guide them in whichever way and yes, they can obviously reach out to me on LinkedIn. That's so that's the fastest way to reach me.

Joseph Jude 34:32
Absolutely. And what I have also seen is you have quite a lot of connection you have quite a lot of shedule but when I left a comment on LinkedIn, you responded back a couple of days later so i and that too. You are touring across Rajasthan or something you still replied back. I really appreciate that.

Sampark 34:54
I'll tell you that's making a difference. The fact that you remember it because When you're talking about building your brand, when you're talking about building a connection, small things such as this make a difference. Because when for somebody like who's posting, he does not expect a response, but then I try as consciously as possible to respond to as many comments, because that is where somebody who's commenting on it also feels valued. He made them remember, okay, okay. At least somebody responded. So it's it's building up that conversation. It's building up that mutual respect. It's it's about building that brand that you say, and it's about building that network. Because it's not again, I come back to that it's not about likes and comments. It's about the relationships that you build. It's about the conversations that you have. That's where it boils down to.

Joseph Jude 35:45
I think that's the right time to end this conversation. As you rightly said, it's about relation and conversations. And thank you so much for teaching in the last half hour.

Sampark 35:58
Thank you so much also for having me.

Joseph Jude 36:01
Thank you for listening to our conversation. If you liked it, can you please share it at least with one of the friends have a life of WINS